1 Topic by Mike Barnett

  • Mike Barnett
  • Principal A/V Engineer
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  • From: Glendale, CA, USA
  • Registered: 2007-09-18
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Topic: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

I ran in to a problem last week where all the CobraNet bundles coming out of one unit, had their all their audio channels offset by three. What should have been coming out of channel one, was really coming out of channel four, and what should have come out of channel eight, really came out channel three.

Because of limited time for troubleshooting, I wasn’t able to confirm that this was happening on any other NIONs in the system. This NION was the fourth in the XDAB loop.

I redeployed, and that fixed the problem.

I haven’t seen this type of channel scrambling since the early days of the Mainframe MM-DSP-CN cards.

Background:
I have a fifteen NION system that is all XDAB’d together. Each NION’s Cobranet output is assigned to a separate VLAN. All NION control is networked on a separate switch. All NIONs are running 1.2.6. All CobraNet firmware is current for the devices.

The system had been compiled and deployed for about four hours, but I had not been running audio. The control switch is not exclusive to the NIONS, and I had been configuring some amplifiers with HiQnet. I never disconnected the NION’s control Ethernet or CobraNet connection to their associated switches, but I had swapped the CobraNet feeds on a couple of amplifiers, but those changes were made to the NION 14 and NION 15 VLANs, and were on separate switches.

In discussions with other NION users about my experience, I have had a few tell me that they had the same problem.

Has anybody else experienced this, know what causes it to happen, and is there any way of preventing it?

2 Reply by jvalenzuela

  • jvalenzuela
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

Just curious, but what would be the reason(s) for segregating each Nion's Cobranet? Is the total quantity of bundles beyond the capability of a single conductor? In each of your Cobranet VLANs, is the NioNode the conductor?

3 Reply by cwa

  • cwa
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

We've had a couple reports of this over the past few years, but never one that is reproducible.  If someone knows how to make this happen on demand, let us know.  Meanwhile, I'll see if we can come up with a test in our lab.  I don't think it has to do with the multiple vlans or the way you have control set up.  Are you using subchannel mapping?  Also, do you dynamically change the CobraNet bundle numbers or subchannel mappings?  Finally, how exactly were the channels shifted?  Were the channels off on just one bundle?  Were the channels of all all bundles shifted but the channels were still in the right bundles?  Or were the channels shifted across bundles?

If anyone sees this, and has the time to check it out, one thing that would help is to run Disco and see if the CobraNet subchannel numbers are correct or not.  The question is, is the subchannel mapping being set wrong in the CobraNet interface, or is there a problem between the interface and the NION hardware.

4 Reply by Mike Barnett

  • Mike Barnett
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

Charles,

This project is pretty straight forward, in that I am not running any subchannel mapping, and there is no dynamic bundle number changing.

The channels were shifted up by three, but stayed in the same bundle, never across bundles.

If this happens again (and I will try and make it happen), I'll get Discovery out and do some snooping.

5 Reply by Mike Barnett

  • Mike Barnett
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

I've been away from my system for two months (actually since I first posted this problem), but now am back to doing some viewfile work, and, I've experienced this channel offset a few more times in the last couple of days. I tried to do more troubleshooting, but was under the gun for an Executive review. The system was not in use while I was away.

Just like before, the channels were offset in the transmit bundle, this time by five. All four output bundles for the NION were offset the same. I didn't have much time to check, but at least three of the NIONS in the system were doing this. Unplugging the CobraNet from the NION to try a reclock didn't work. I even changed the CN address from my amplifier to that of a spare RAVE, and it had the five channel offset as well. A forced compile was the only way to fix the problem.

A new twist I discovered this morning is that I had channels offset on incoming bundles. In this case, the channel was offset by two.

I have talked to another Engineer and a couple of technicians here on property. They tell me that they have experienced the same issue on at least four other systems (2, 3, and more XDAB'd NIONS). In some cases the channel offset seemed to be triggered by a compile/deploy, but there have been cases of the channels spontaneously offsetting.

6 Reply by Mike Barnett

  • Mike Barnett
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

This time I did have an opportunity to run Disco and check the subchannel mapping while the channels were being offset in the bundles. Disco showed no differences between the system when it had the channel offset, or when the system was functioning correctly.

With the system in the failed mode (channel offset), I ran some other experiments:

-I disconnected the CobraNet from the Crown CTs8200/CN which I was feeding, and connected it to a QSC Rave. The result was the same channel offset as experienced with the amplifier.
-I disconnected CobraNet from the NION on the particular VLAN I was testing on. Despite the whole system muting, and an XDAB reconfiguration, the CobraNet channels still were offset.
-I powered down the NION on the particular VLAN I was testing on, and powered it back up. I still had the same channel offset.
-I re-deployed without a compile. This corrected the channel offset.

7 Reply by cwa

  • cwa
  • cwa
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

It's surprising that the power cycle didn't clear it.  We're investigating this one.  If anyone else has anything to add (seen this, fixed it, etc.) please let us know.

8 Reply by cwa

  • cwa
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

We believe we have a fix for this.  It is in testing now and I expect we will be able to release it soon.

9 Reply by cobraguy

  • cobraguy
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

I believe 2.9.16 CobraNet firmware will fix this. Have you tried that?

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10 Reply by tucan

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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

I am seeing this same problem on a site where we have Cobranet 2.9.12 in Cab 8i's and CAB 8o's and several Nions currently running NWare 1.2.6.

In my system the audio seems to have jumped by 1 channel upwards on some of the CAB8o's. rebooting the CABS and the Nions has no effect. I can not try recompiling and deploying as I am not on site currently

Can you confirm that this issue can be fixed by upgrading the Nions to Cobranet 2.9.16, as I need to have a firefighting plan when I head back out to site next week to fix this issue,

Thanks

11 Reply by cobraguy

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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

2.9.16 should fix it. We have tested it in other similar situations and it has proven to work.

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12 Reply by phils

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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

I understand that you're saying that NIONs should go to 2.9.16; but I've heard that the grey CABs should stay with 2.9.12. Is that correct, or not?
thanks

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13 Reply by cobraguy

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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

I'm not sure about that but I don't see why you would not run the latest code on all platforms. Perhaps Josh or Ivor could chime in.  If it is a Cab4n you are using with a CM-1 card in it then I would definitely update it as well.

Nihilism is best done by professionals

14 Reply by JoshM

  • JoshM
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

In the situation tucan is referring to, simply updating the CobraNet firmware on the NIONs to 2.9.16 should solve his problem.

Whenever you are updating the CobraNet firmware, DO NOT USE the generic firmware. You MUST use the firmware that is specific to the hardware you are putting it in.

The following is current as of the date of this posting. If you are reading this post after November, 2008 I highly recommend finding something more recent or calling your MediaMatrix Technical Services or tech support person and finding out what the correct version is.

CobraNet firmware 2.9.16 has not been successfully tested on any of the old CAB 8i/o and CAB 16i/o/d. For these CABs use CobraNet firmware 2.9.12.

In the CAB 4n CM-2 use CobraNet firmware 2.11.3.
In the CAB 4n CM-1 use CobraNet firmware 2.9.11(2).

The easiest way to tell which CAB 4n you have is to connect CobraNet Discovery to it and see what it pulls up. The CAB 4n CM-1 is only required for ControlMatrix systems that are utilizing 9-bit serial bridging so it is likely that most systems out there are of the CM-2 variety.

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website

15 Reply by tucan

  • tucan
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

I was just about to download the Cobranet 2.9.16 firmware from the Cirrus website to take to site to cure my channel jumping problems and i saw the previous post.

Therefore, heeding the warning I went to the MediaMatrix site and downloaded the following:-

http://mm.peavey.com/assets/software/Me … ry_270.exe

...however the latest specific Nion cobranet version I could find was nion_2_9_12.bin

SO, where do I find the nion_2_9_16.bin that I need??????

16 Reply by JoshM

  • JoshM
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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

It is in the file that zipped directory you downloaded.

Make sure when you unzipped the file that it created the folder where you told it to and that you adjusted the CobraNet Discovery to look in that folder for the firmware.

In CobraNet Discovery you can change where it looks for firmware by going into "Tools">"Options" and changing the "Database Location" path.

This way you do not have to overwrite the existing CobraNet firmware that you may already have installed on your computer (in the event that you are using some CobraNet devices that are not part of MediaMatrix, but why you would do this... I just don't know!). Rather you can have a directory for everyone else's firmware and a directory for MediaMatrix's CobraNet Firmware. Just change the path in Disco according to what you are working with.

I believe by default, if you do not change anything, if you simply run the .exe, it will put a new folder called "Firmware" in the Firmware directory for CobraNet.

Have a look in there, I'll bet you have it. It's just hiding from you on your computer.

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website

17 Reply by cobraguy

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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

OR... Put the new firmware and database files in:     C:/Program Files/Cirrus Logic/CobraNet Discovery/firmware

Nihilism is best done by professionals

18 Reply by JoshM

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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

cobraguy wrote:

OR... Put the new firmware and database files in:     C:/Program Files/Cirrus Logic/CobraNet Discovery/firmware

Steve-

I have a quick question about doing that...

If I have other firmware in that directory for other non-MediaMatrix devices, when I copy all that stuff in there, I will be asked if I want to replace the existing database.ini file with the one I am copying in. If I do replace the file, will my system still be able to see the firmware files I already had or will I only be able to see the firmware files that came in the zipped directory? Is it necessary to merge the two database.ini files together?

Thanks!

-Josh

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website

19 Reply by cobraguy

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Re: CobraNet Channels Mysteriously Offset in Bundles

If the firmware is standard firmware that has been released by Cirrus and the release you are saving is newer than the rev you have now, then the new database will be a superset of the old and you should have no problems.  In the unlikely event that you are replacing a newer rev with an older one OR have custom firmware of some sort that has been added to the database using the advanced feature, then the newer or custom entries will be lost. But they can be re-added using the advanced feature setting in Disco.

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