1 Topic by Ampco_Kees

  • Ampco_Kees
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Topic: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

Hi,

I've had a scary experience on the last projects with NIONs I did last month.
I have a system build up with thre NION N6 and two cabs with 1.42 firmware.
In the project I have to use the Xdab a lot (400 channels).
The whole system was fine during the tuning, untill the installer "neated" the cabling and touched the Xdab cables.
The whole system suddenly gave full-scale digital noise on all outputs!
After inspection, it appeared the one off the pins off one off the Xdab connectors had been bent down a little bit, causing a bad connection, when we bent it back it was fine, but what worries me A LOT is that it is possible to cause this condition where a fault on the Xdab causes full scale noise on all outputs in the system! In this case I was lucky that all the speaker where 100V so that the trafo's protected the speakers, but if it hadn't be this way, I would have lost 120 Speakers!. The fault was there every time that we did something with the Xdab cables.
In the old firmware versions there was always the problem that the system would mute and unmute itself on (non-existing) Xdab failures, this is solved now, but it seems that it is solved in such a way that corrupt data can come through the whole system! Looks a bit like the whole protection has been removed all together.....
Please try to solve this matter really fast, because a muting system is annoying but workable, but this behaviour is really, really bad and really dangerous!

Thanks in advance

Kees

2 Reply by Fergy

  • Fergy
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  • Registered: 2007-08-15
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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

Check your Fault Policy.  This is found in the Project Properties under File.  For your project, you must select "Mute all on any node of XDAB failure" (which is the factory default).  If you select a different selection, this is the reason for the digital noise (and would be the expected result).

Please let us know what you have set, because if this is not the problem, then we do have an issue.

Make it intuitive, never leave them guessing.

3 Reply by JoshM

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

Ampco_Kees wrote:

Please try to solve this matter really fast, because a muting system is annoying but workable, but this behaviour is really, really bad and really dangerous!

As Scott has noted, the default setting of the Fault Policy is to ALWAYS mute, if someone has changed this, then I would certainly expect the behavior that you have mentioned. We (the factory) recommend to keep the system in the "Always Mute" mode to keep the system from possibly damaging behavior.

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website

4 Reply by Ampco_Kees

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

I've checked the project setting, and the fault policy is on :mute all on any node or xdab failure, so that's not it....

5 Reply by JoshM

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

That is good to know.

Just to make sure we are all clear on what the fix for the system was:

Upon disconnecting the XDAB cables, you noticed that one of the contacts in the RJ-45 connector that the XDAB cable plugs into was not uniform with the rest. You adjusted it so that it is uniform and have not experienced any issues since.

Is this correct?

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website

6 Reply by ivorr

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  • Registered: 2007-08-17
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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

I know this sounds rather basic, but are all the XDAB cables the blue ones we supply? The reason I ask is ours are individually swept and certified for full CAT6 specs. Some cables, even Brand Name Grade A Fancy, say CAT6 on the cable but only make CAT5e spec.

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. -Socrates

ivorr's Website

7 Reply by jvalenzuela

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

ivorr wrote:

Some cables, even Brand Name Grade A Fancy

I always stick with Brand Name Grade A Exotic myself...


As far as muting on any XDAB failure, doesn't that kind of defeat the whole purpose of it being a ring? I know projects that specifically purchased extra Nions in an XDAB cluster so that if one dies, another is programmed to take over automatically.

8 Reply by cwa

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

Couple of questions.  Did the noise run continuously, or was it a burst?  Also, do you happen to know which pin failed?  This should not happen, we have not removed any xdab fault protection.

Regarding mute all vs non-mute all, it is possible to design a system such that when part of the system fails, it causes bad audio in other parts of the system.  This is why we don't recommend turning off the mute all option unless you really know what you are doing.

9 Reply by Ampco_Kees

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

It is correct that one off the pins was bent down and by adjusting it the problem was solved.
The bend pin was the left-most pin on the left Xdab port from the first NOIN off three in the project.
The noise came in random bursts each lasting 1-3 seconds with an average interval off a couple off minutes
All the cables used where factory-supplied cables. (I don't think this has anything to do with the cables though, 'cause the fault condition is clear, it's about what happens then)

Cheers,
Kees

10 Reply by cwa

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

Ok, thanks.  We'll investigate.

11 Reply by Ampco_Kees

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

Hi guys,

Since my last post the described issue has happened two more times with the customer, FULLSCALE DIGITAL NOISE ON ALL OUTPUTS DURING A CLASSICAL CONCERT! The customer is thinking about forcing us to take back the three NION's and I can't blame him for feeling this way. Please tell me that you found the bug and are working hard on it to fix it!

Kessito

12 Reply by JoshM

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Re: Xdab failure causes system instability in 1.42 firmware

Since this forum is not specifically MediaMatrix Technical Support, but rather a vehicle for discussing MediaMatrix, I HIGHLY recommend that you contact your MediaMatrix Technical Support contacts. Please let us know where you are so we can help you contact the right person/people.

The bare minimum the U.S. Technical Services will require with any system is a copy of the project file, the remote logs from all of the NIONs involved, and preferably high-res photos of the front and back of the installed units.

Please send me an email if you need help with any of this.

Thanks!

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website