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Topic: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

We have a project that has 4 N3's and 8 CAB4N's in it that appear to all loose communication and show thier respective serial addresses during periods of inactivity. They do not loose link or cobranet status on the front panel. This problem was occuring in 1.2.6 as well. This same project also has another system sharing the same layer 2 cobranet switch with 4 N3's and 6 CAB4N's. I am tying to get the engingeer to sperate the systems with different cobranet switches. Any Thoughts on the cab's loosing communitcation?

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

Check the device placement of those cab's, it maybe that they are all being controlled by 1 nionode.
If this is the case distribute the Cab's over the 4 nodes to share the workload.

All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him.

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

Thanks for the quick reply! All of the audio comes in on an AES card in the first N3 and is distributed via routers in the first N3 to different cabs and N3's. The other N3's get the audio via XDAB. The cabs get the audio sent to them from different N3's, so I don't think they all are talking to the first N3 in the system. We are using analog outputs from 3 of the 4 N3's, and the rest of the outputs are from the cabs. I think I would have to change a good bit of the file to move things around that much. What is the maximum number of cabs that can be "controlled" by a nion without drop-offs?

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

It's not so much how the audio is being routed/distributed between nodes in the system but more relative to the control data being sent to the cab's i.e. Polling from the nion's.
If you do a right click on those cab device blocks and go to "device placement" this will tell you which nionode in the system is responsible for that device.
At the compile stage by default all cab's will be placed under nionode#1, so unless you have gone in manually and changed this i suspect this will be the case in your file.

I have seen issues in the field on a couple of occassions(in 1.2.6 or earlier) where 7-12 cab's being controlled by one nionode resulted in Cab's randomly disconnecting due to "missed polls".

So i would try and place some of those cab's under different nionodes in the system if it is the case that nionode#1 or whatever it maybe called is serving all 8.

Are you seeing the same rate of disconnects in 1.4.1 as you where in 1.2.6?

All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him.

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

I am not sure as to exactly when the cabs loose communication. All will seem well during the day, and we will come in the next morning, and all cabs in both systems will be showing their serial addresses. I really did not think to place the cab itself on a different dsp. This is why I am the audio mushroom.... I think that sounds very promising and will go to the site as soon as I can and change the file. As this is a high profile Military project, the sooner I can resolve the problem for the project team, the better.

_______________

In the immortal words of Socrates, I DRANK WHAT??!!! ( Real Genius, 1985 )

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

Let me re-ask James important question, because we in tech support are all anxious to know;

Which version of software are you using?

Make it intuitive, never leave them guessing.

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

We are using version 1.4.0 which I now know is an older version. We are upgrading today to 1.4.1. Thnaks in helping keep me current!

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

Two items that this thread brings up;
1).  Should (or can) the compiler be made "smart" enough to automatically allocate control of CABs across more than one CM-1 (NioNode).

2).  The “why" , and the “how to stop"  the dropping off of CABs needs to documented for the help files.

Moatsy may have also answered Phils' question of "Does the improved CAB polling of V1.4.x reduce CAB drop-off".  Phil, still have your customers go ahead check for improvement with their systems.

Phil, you know, I'm sitting here thinking that maybe we in Meridian have assumed that one of the other of us has already suggested to you James' solution...And you know what assume stands for.

Make it intuitive, never leave them guessing.

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

Thanks,
I'm trying to get current files from the customers to check how/whether CABs have been distributed across NioNodes.
There have been various comments and suggestions about how many CABs to expect each NioNode to control:
this would be a good future HELP TOPIC.

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
                                                                                        - George Bernard Shaw

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

If you have had this problem, and James solution worked for you, please respond with how many and type of CABs and how many NioNodes are in your Project (this will help us with the documentation process).

Also, check (if you can) if you have control of the analog inputs or outputs.  If you have control, this means that this is a polling "time-out" problem, as opposed to a control bridging problem.

Thanks

Make it intuitive, never leave them guessing.

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

I have a project with one NION N3 and 9 CAB´s. After a few hours the CAB´s lose their link. I tried to disconnect some CAB´s and it look`s like that one NION can control up to 6 CAB´s.
I have some questions regarding this problem:
- I´m using the "8 4 Bundles" Mode; will the "Advanced" Mode bring an improvement of the situation?
- Will a reduction of the DSP usage bring an improvement?
- Will it help to make one CAB the Conductor?
- Will the reduction of the Control frame rate or the reduction of the GUI poll rate bring an improvement?

Thanks,
Gerald

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

Wigl:

If you go to advanced Cobranet assignment, you can improve the efficiency of the Cobranet traffic to and from your CABs. This of course requires you to have similar advanced subchannel mapping capabilities in your CABs. Basically you can pack more channels into a bundle, which can mean a significant reduction in frames/sec and a rather small reduction in bytes/sec that must be handled by the Cobranet interfaces. It will make no difference in the DSP usage.

If by 'Control frame' you mean either the conductor or the CAB control polling, the conductor frame size will change slightly if you reduce the number of bundles, but the rate at which both it and the CAB polling messages are transmitted is not affected by settings in the advanced Cobranet dialog(AFAIK).

The amount of efficiency you can gain is of course dependent on the exact Cobranet configuration you currently have, as you obviously don't want to change the audio channels' source and destination, but rather how they are packaged.

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Re: nware v1.4 and CAB4n's dropping offline

The easiest answer is to make a CAB the Conductor.  The current issue is related to how much the Nion is using the CM-1 module's process abilities.  The most important thing the CM-1 does is process and pass audio, and this has first priority.  Controlling the CABs comes second, which is why the CABs go off line, but continue to pass audio.  So if you move the Conductor to one of the CABs, this relieves the NioNode's CM-1 of this task, which leaves just enough processing cycles for the control of the CABs to return.

Control Frame is the communication between NioNodes as well as any computer that is connected to the NioNodes via NWare.  GUI poll rate is the updating of the NWare graphics (the GUI) on any computer that is connected to the NioNodes.  Since this is network traffic on the LAN port,  this has no impact on CobraNet.

Reduction of DSP usage will not bring improvement, unless you reduce the workload of the CM-1 by reducing the amount of CN channels.

Jason answered your first suggestion.

Make it intuitive, never leave them guessing.